Martha Haehl

All right, okay, so first for the record will you say and spell your full name.

Martha Hale, M-A-R-T-H-A-H-A-E-H-L.

Okay, actually the first question I was going to ask had to do with 1976.

When you had said that Steve Mason first inspired you to go?

Steve Mason had a was part owner of the music store that also had a concert hall in the back off the wall hall and I used to go there in jam and so he said you got to come down to Winfield.

I mean he would it would get people to come.

So yeah, he I don't know about inspired.

They said you would really like this y'all to come.

So then you went and then have you been going ever since?

No, I went for a while back then but there was a long time I didn't go for a number of reasons.

One it was money and time off work.

Another was it was just such a white redneck culture.

It kind of got to me.

Oh it was?

Oh yeah, really.

I mean there was the other element but it was you know, very very blue grass, very right winged religious.

It was a very probably more dominant than anything else.

And when was that?

Oh from the 70s probably through the 90s at least.

Okay.

So you went when it first started?

It started more as a conservative leaning.

Well yeah, not that the organizers were that but it was a blue grass festival and blue grass tends to come out of the fundamentalist churches.

So yeah.

Okay.

All right.

I think I also remember you saying when we've talked before that when camping first started at Wendfield it wasn't at all organized like it is.

Of course it was a lot smaller.

It was a lot smaller and there were almost no RVs or trainers.

Everything was tense and very few free standing tense.

So all of the old canvas tents with guy wires and there were some of the lighter weight nylon tents but almost everything was tense.

And walking at night was very dangerous because there were guy wires everywhere.

And you could trip.

Absolutely.

Okay.

So you slept next to strangers then within the world?

I'm sure.

I had a little pup tent at the time.

So I did have a small of them on free standing tent but oh yeah I just found a spot and set it up.

Cool.

Then cool.

Then also what instruments did you play early on?

I know you play.

Fluke is a big one for you now.

When I first went to Wendfield I played guitar.

I also did take flute.

I played flute then although it was pretty well found at the bone except in the Celtic group.

And I can't remember if I don't think I had a mandolin yet the first time I went.

So probably just guitar pretty much predominantly when I first went.

And why was the flute found at one?

It's not a bluegrass instrument.

The traditional bluegrass people are very, very inner box.

And if the instrument was not in Bob Will's, not Bob Will's but Bill Monroe and the bluegrass Kentucky bluegrass boys band, it's not a bluegrass instrument.

I mean the very hardcore bluegrass musicians.

That really narrowed it to six instruments.

Guitar, fiddle, mandolin, stand-up bass, dobro, and banjo.

Those are the six traditional bluegrass instruments.

In some of the bluegrass festivals at the time probably some even now.

Say these are the only instruments you're allowed to play.

Now it's broadened to harmonica is pretty widely accepted now.

Oh and the bass had to be acoustic, everything was acoustic, no electric basses.

In fact early Windfield shows, I remember probably in the 90s sometime some band brought an electric bass player and it raised eyebrows.

The musician played it.

Oh yeah.

One of the bands and it, you know, that's not bluegrass.

Yeah so, flute is still, you don't take a flute to a bluegrass jam.

A kick out.

And even then they didn't like all of our beauty lately but they've brought in a little bit to those, the string instruments.

And Windfield then evolved because you're talking bluegrass and today there's, today it's not called a bluegrass festival.

It's called an acoustic music festival.

So it's broadened the whole lot.

Yeah, yeah.

So that changed quite a bit lately.

I was just then going to ask you a little bit about the idea of home because I read on the website and I've heard people say that they view the festival as kind of a coming home.

Coming home to Windfield, yeah.

Yeah, and I think there's even like coming home to a place in the soul and the heart.

What does that mean to you?

Well, certainly over the years I see friends that I play with here but I also have met many people at Windfield that I migrate over and try to see every year.

So, I'm playing music with them.

So it feels like you're seeing reuniting with family?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Alright.

So kind of comfort or whatever, how would you describe the emotion that you feel?

Well, there's just something so rich about having this connection with people all over the country, connection through music and sometimes through commonalities and beliefs.

Not always.

Sometimes you don't mention that.

But you know, it's, and people help each other out as somebody's electrical core got damaged.

Somebody else will see if they got one and you know, they're helping each other out is kind of pretty much the norm there.

Yeah.

It's not for everybody but you know, well, I think that's, you feel like them.

Yeah.

And people are pretty welcoming.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

I've also heard people say they have a Winfield family.

Who would you say was part of your earliest Winfield family?

Oh, probably my earliest was when I used to camp over at a place called the Froggy Mountain Campground and this is the first year that campground wasn't there because some of the people have died, some have gotten older and come and I would camp at that same campground every year.

So there was this, this group of people you got to know pretty well and the, that particular group was almost everybody was from Wichita, Winfield, Al Dorado, Kansas City and there was some people from Texas who would stay in there.

So I would say probably when people are coming to the Winfield family, it's probably if they're going back to the same campground every year.

Now I moved around a lot so I have, I, someone, well, I moved to where I, where was this year because I had knee problems three years ago and almost didn't go because between knee and wrist problems I couldn't set up like camper and I have a lot of friends there and they said, "Well, come camp with us, we'll set you up."

And they did.

I mean, I couldn't even crank the thing up that year.

You know, it was, it was in bad shape and you could hobble from my, from the picking tent to my camper which was probably 50 feet, you know, slowly and that's about all the walking I did that year.

Wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

When did you say was the last year of the Froggy Mountain campground last year?

Just like 2023.

Yeah.

Okay.

And Don Cog from El Dorado who ran a music store there in concert hall for years was kind of the core of that and he died last year.

So I think that's, so his, it had become a family reunion for his now adult kids who were little kids when they first started coming or babies even.

And, but his wife died a number of years ago and he died last year and all his three sons and their spouses and kids, they would make it a family reunion every year, a literal one.

And they were kind of core to that and then with Don dying, the son from Colorado didn't come in and you know, it, yeah, it just fell apart and some of the people who would camp there either don't come because they were getting older or have died or parked in handicap camping or yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

So how does that feel to you then when you reflect on all that?

Oh, that was sad to see that.

Oh, although I have been camped over there for years.

Yeah.

But it, yeah.

What made you end up at Wauki Wien?

Well, that was because of a knee problem.

Three years ago I couldn't have gone without help setting things up and Robert Tim's and Greg McCarty and Russell Thomas and said, we'll get you set up and TJ, but you won't have to do a thing.

Okay.

Which is good because as easy as that camper is to push up, I couldn't do it that year.

And do you see them at, what's it called, not the bridge?

The brick?

Do you go to the brick room?

I do go to the brick a lot.

I have seen all of them at the brick one about TJ.

He lives in Wichita now.

I don't know that he's ever been a brick regular.

But I've known them more from other jams.

But also, they also must have been going to the brick sometimes.

But I know them prior to knowing them from the brick.

I see.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

What then, and this could relate to what you were just talking about, what have you tried to do to keep a sense of cohesion, community cohesion at Wienfield?

And you know with that, the froggy mountain kind of, well, I have been a deserter.

I have moved to different places where I can't.

So I don't know that I've done a lot to keep community together.

I go back and visit everybody.

In fact, at the place I had to count for about 10 years prior to moving to Wai-Ki-Ki-U-E-N.

Some friends of mine's based out Lawrence.

I know them through music.

I just love their music.

And at that time, froggy mountain was getting to where it was a lot more drinking than there was music.

And I go for the music.

Right.

In fact, a lot of times I go through the entire Wienfield.

Don't have a single alcoholic drink.

Yes.

More common than not.

I don't drink.

And so it turned in.

There wasn't jamming.

And even when they started jamming again, it was all Celtic circles, which I liked for a little while.

But I really liked the singing jams.

And my friends from Lawrence, they do just all sorts of eclectic music.

They're not bluegrass.

They're not Celtic.

They might pull some of those things in, but they'll do anywhere from John Prime to...

What's the name?

Kate Wolf.

Different folk artists.

Some countries, some host 60, 70s rock and roll.

You know, they just do an eclectic mix, which is what I like.

I'm not a single stop person.

Multasana person.

So I had camped over there for the years, and the only reason I did it a couple of years ago, and it was because it's up by the river.

It's very unleveled ground, and it just got harder.

Yeah.

I understand that.

That makes sense.

However, one person there, Greg Bryant, a friend of mine, three years, I said that was telling him before Wienfield.

I have a desire to get a camp.

But I feel like a traitor wherever I came up, and he said, "Oh, don't worry about it.

You're like the camp, Kitten, anybody will feed you."

Oh, that's nice.

I kind of like that image.

Have loyalty to all and loyalty to none in a way.

Right.

Yeah.

Definitely.

Yes.

That was one of the stories that you mentioned.

Now I was going to ask you, do you have any, I guess, kind of little vignettes or little things that you remember happening at some of the earlier ones?

Oh, man, there's so many.

Certainly, I remember one time at Froggy Mountain Camp, Grandly, had really good singing jam, and had been a good jam all night, and closed out with just 30 people in harmonies, singing it 4 o'clock in the morning before stumbling to bed.

You know, that was definitely just a beautiful song.

And I even remember the song.

It was "Early" written by Greg Brown.

And it's about a town called "Early" in Iowa.

And the "Just of It" is "Early" so "I" and "I" and "I" anyway, it does a pun on the name of the town early in the morning and the beauty of the area.

And they call it "Early" and they sure got it right.

Wow.

That sounds wonderful.

Yeah.

Beautiful song, beautiful sentiment, but to people singing in harmonies.

Wow.

Yes.

So, you know, that's a magic moment, I remember.

Right.

And certainly, I don't know.

There's just little hot spots all around.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

And then what kinds of, and when I say tradition, I mean it kind of loosely.

As you do or have you done, I'm talking about even, I kept hearing people talk about how there's one campsite that you can come to jam, but you can only play the songs that are in their campsite songbook.

Yeah.

Do you have experiences with any of those or do you have little traditions?

Oh sure.

Well, I don't know about me having little traditions.

I'm a person who has always been of the belief of, I'm a very traditional person.

I started a new one today.

So, no, I've never been, this is what we play and nothing else comes in.

But yeah, there are some that they do what they do and it's from this book, if it's not from this book, we don't play it.

Other people are going to want strictly bluegrass and find a common tar group, but play bluegrass and play a bluegrass instrument.

Some people are going to be strictly counting, come in their group, just fine, but we do Celtic music and the rules of Celtic music are this and this and this.

And others are multi genre.

And some of them are, you know, the musicians are more advanced than others.

And you know, more advanced than in some areas and some areas and musicians are, you know, beginning to moderate.

And so those are sort of the norms that you kind of figure out.

Oh yes.

To where you go when you go and read.

Yeah.

And anytime you walk into a jam, it's a good idea to size it up.

I mean, obviously if most of the musicians are fair to Midland, Melody, players, don't play a ten-core song.

You know, they're just going to put their instruments down the stair at you.

It's not a jam anymore.

Right.

To find a jam.

Well, a jam is a number of musicians playing together.

And typically on songs where they may not all know how it goes or, you know, they make up the arrangement on the spot, unlike a band who practices and practices and then does it this way.

What about, do you have anything, even if it's not related to the music you do, like have you brought the same instruments, have you gone, you know, brought the same pop up tantre or anything like that?

Is there any consistencies that you like to have with the festival that make it, I guess, comfortable for you?

Well, I certainly like my camper, the pop-up camper.

Long time ago I was fortunate to get a small camper and not have to do tit camping anymore.

I did tit camping or sleeping in my van for years.

And it's nice not to do that.

What was it like to sleep in the van?

Well, I was younger, it was fine, you know, I had a bed made up in the van.

And sometimes I would have one of those tailgate tents that went over the end of the van.

And that actually is not a bad setup.

But it's definitely nicer to have a camper.

And I don't want a big one.

I don't want to have to take up a ton of space or figure out how to get it in there or all the maintenance on one.

But when you want to cut out a little sound and have a little air conditioning or a little heat depending on whatever is important, it's really nice to have that small little camper with thick walls.

Yeah.

You brought the water also, didn't you bring some special?

I did bring water.

That's another thing that's different about different campgrounds.

So the last two times when things I found very disconcerting about camping at walkie way in is they didn't have any open faucets, you know, for anyone who wasn't hooked up to water.

Oh, yeah.

And every other place I'd been there would always be, they always made sure an open faucet was left there so you could fill up a bucket, you know, water.

And knowing that this time I went, okay, I'm going to take this five gallon thing jug of water and I didn't put five gallons in because it sloshes over in the car if I did that.

But I probably had about three gallons of water in it.

But Jamie this year, he was kind of rattled by the same thing and he brought a little hose where people could go with an open end of it where they could go get water from it.

Okay.

Yeah.

And but this time I went, well, I'm going to take that and three gallons of water and then when I run out I'll go get someone, someone's camper.

But instead Jamie had that hose there so I was able to refill it.

And that did make it much nicer for me because I had a little bar of soap right there and I could wash my hands regularly.

Right.

Yes.

With something besides wet wipes.

Yes.

And you need to do that.

That's important to you.

Yes.

Yeah.

And wash my face even, you know.

Especially on those hot nays it really helps.

It really throws water on the head.

Yeah.

Get really sweaty.

And yeah.

I was going to ask some about collective mentality of the festival early on.

I know that there are people who you know you had mentioned that there were blue grass and blue grass tended to be very conservative.

So there are baptists.

In the early 70s with all the, you know, ending of all the social consciousness and it was still going on.

Do you remember anything like that from the early years of one field, you know, with all of the feminism, gay rights, anti-war and stuff like that?

That was that ever.

At early wind field, very few women jammed.

Women cooked and washed dishes while men jammed and watched the kids.

I was rarity in a jam circle and when I'd go into a jam circle, I would rarely be called on.

They didn't go around the circle.

You know, a couple of guys called all the shots usually.

Oh, yeah.

I think women getting into the jam is what got that tradition to go around the circle and take turns and start it.

Really?

Because that was even the old full killer.

A couple of men in every jam circle would call all the shots and they would, about four or five guys, say, "Okay, you do one, Joe."

Oh, that's nice.

Okay, you do one, George.

Oh, you do one, Joe.

You, or Jim.

Dave.

Joe.

Dave.

Jim.

Do.

J.

Jim.

Jim.

Martha, do you have one?

Really?

Oh, it was.

Yeah.

It was extremely sexist.

Wow.

Then they would say, "Yeah, I'm doing this, but I'm going to just skip over."

Oh.

And they did, it wasn't that they would skip over.

I'm selecting you and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and not even realize they had skipped over 10 people.

Whoa.

So they were so unaware.

They were definitely unaware.

It wasn't just total obnoxiousness.

They were unaware.

How?

They didn't expect the women to have anything to leave anyway.

Yeah.

So how did you feel about all of that?

I mean, uh, mix bag.

I mean, I was aware that I got skipped over a lot, but I was also really glad to be part of the music and, uh, knowing that I was a diffeather, picking a skill set.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, your choices don't be a part of it at all or be a part on the fringes.

That's what your choice was, as you know.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And would you say that you, I mean, of course that bothers you because you're there for the music.

Oh, yeah.

Does it offend you at all?

Did it about the whole fact that they were doing it to you because of your gender?

Well, yes.

But, you know, if you live your life offended because you're slated, I wouldn't have made it through the '70s or the '60s.

You know, women were fighting to have any kind of recognition.

And you know, I teach math.

That's my profession, Community College mostly.

And, you know, I was one of five women who got a master's degree at KU, out of 200, who were in the master's degree program in math, again, '67, when I started out of 200 students.

Now I had my choice, feel discriminated against because some professors didn't think I could do it or do it.

And that's the same way with music.

I mean, if you are in a class, it's discriminated against.

If you let the discrimination define you, then you just do nothing.

Right.

I get the sense, though, and tell me if I'm wrong, that you specifically, you were on the fringes, but it doesn't seem like you were very angry about it.

No.

Or did you not really, I mean, partly that's, I think, has always been a personal choice that I don't want to live my life angry because it doesn't do anything to the people you're angry against.

Yeah.

All it does anything to it yourself.

Now on the other hand, I think anger and directing it towards change is important.

Using that, you know, this isn't right, I'm going to change it.

It's very important.

And do you feel like that played any role I was going to ask, how did you see this kind of start to change, then?

Because clearly now, I mean, you're highly respected.

Well, and clearly now, I mean, there are a ton of young women who are incredible instrumentalists and are encouraged to be that.

And I guess part of me is glad that I was a part to make that change happen.

So and it happens slowly, but can you remember anything like that you did to try to make it change or I think just just stay in, staying in the game.

It's probably the biggest thing.

You just wouldn't disappear.

Yeah, wouldn't disappear.

Yeah, there are some people who would have liked for me too.

And you knew that.

Oh, sure.

Yeah, sure.

Okay.

But you still enjoyed it then.

Well, yeah.

I mean, music is in my blood.

Yeah, I mean.

Yeah.

Then would you start playing, and even though you knew that a lot of the people were thinking, you can't do it.

I don't know that I focused on that.

I mean, sometimes I think it made me intimidated and made me less of a musician because, you know, it's hard to throw off what you think other people are thinking of you.

But on the other hand, inside me, I knew I was a musician.

And I'm determined.

Yeah.

That's very good.

And then do you feel like that has carried over the way that you would like for it to?

Like at Winfield now, do you see things changing?

Oh, they've changed tremendously.

They are changing, but they have changed.

Yes.

Huge change from, you know, in 50 years.

Yeah.

And you feel like it's continuing to change.

Oh, yeah.

What are some of the ways?

Well, for one thing, they would have never had a female on stage as an MC.

And they do sometimes.

That would have never happened back in the day.

And I mean, that's, you can see that.

You would have never had, rarely now, as a woman sitting at a soundboard, but you might see it sometimes now.

Do you think there were some people there who talked about wanting to, feeling like there were people, the first generation people, I guess, that they're either not coming anymore, or like you were saying, they're a good portion of them that have died.

Oh, the owner.

Yeah, a lot of them there.

Yeah.

Because it is a strain on you.

It's a lot of work to get your tent or your camper set up.

It's dealing with the elements.

It can be difficult.

And it's a lot of work to pack up, go home.

So I know several people have stopped going because they just don't have the energy to do all of that.

Right.

Yeah.

How, what's the collective mentality I guess of people?

And I asked this because I heard probably two or three times people saying, you know, we need to get the new generation in.

Yeah.

What's behind that strong desire?

Well, to keep the tradition going.

Obviously, any music that the young people don't get behind is going to die.

Period.

And it may go in cycles.

But if younger people don't pick it up, it's going to die up because the older people are going to die.

Yeah.

And so you're hoping to preserve the tradition of the music?

I have a bad one to ask for that because I am, like I said, I am so multi-genre.

And the tradition I want to make sure happens and continues is people making music together and let the music go where it goes.

Now I personally don't care if that's bluegrass or jazz or rap or hip hop or grunge or-- Yeah.

That's the tradition that I think is the most important to carry on.

Now that doesn't mean I don't like songs before my time, like I really love the early 1900s music.

That's clearly before my time.

But I love that music.

But the tradition of making music together and communicating through music, I think is the tradition I most want to see happen or continue.

Okay.

Then you do see it happening out at Winfield.

Oh, sure.

Tell me what you like so much about that.

Well the music is fun.

It's an interaction at a gut level and an intellectual level with people that sometimes you really otherwise would or wouldn't like.

You know, probably some people in that circle, if we weren't playing music, I probably wouldn't have any reason to spend 10 minutes with them.

Okay.

And so do you think it's important then that do you think music then somehow kind of chops down that barrier at all?

Oh, yeah.

Especially there at Waikii, you know, you at Waikii, you've got a broad political spectrum in that one small area.

There were Trump supporters there.

There were right wing Christian supporters, there were Jewish people who were for Trump because if they think he will give his or her more power, not that all Jewish people are for Trump, not a lot are.

But there are Jewish people who like Trump for this reason.

There are there right wing Christian people who like Trump for this reason.

There are people who hate Trump because it think is my opinion.

Egotistical pig.

And think that Kamala Harris is a whore and you know, you had all of that in that area.

And it was like that back in the early years too, would you say?

It's one more to the right wing.

Okay.

In fact that one of the reasons I stopped going for years is, well, one, I'm married to Sarah who you met.

And you know, the anti gay stuff, the anti women stuff, the anti black stuff, it's just went, no, I don't need this.

So she went with you a few years if I remember correctly.

Yeah.

And you all faced, no, it's not that we faced that.

It's just you sitting circles and you hear people say stupid shit.

And you just going, why am I here?

Wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

No, it's not because people sent anything directly to me or even knew that Sarah was my partner.

Right.

You know, it wasn't that.

It's just the attitudes that come out in discussion.

That you're going, you know, I just want to play music.

I really don't want to talk to you about this because I know it's going to turn into a fight.

And I know it's going to turn into you being nasty to me.

No, I quit.

I, there's probably 20 years.

I didn't go because I just didn't like the attitudes.

Wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

That sort of goes against the, I guess you could say tradition of Winfield family and coming home.

No, it doesn't.

Oh, it doesn't.

Okay.

So, if they could go there and gather with the right wing religious group that they agree with, that's family.

Okay.

Now, it has broadened and there are more kinds of families now.

What family did you belong to then?

Because you are very much not.

A froggy mountain camp.

Right.

You know, I kept there. 30 days, not.

I mean, I just went and I really didn't know anybody.

Yeah.

Wow.

All right.

Yeah.

So, that, would you say that that's changed?

The amount of, well, the percentage has.

Okay.

I wouldn't say that it's gone.

You drive in the countryside there when Hillary Trump or, you know, opponents.

You saw all over Oxford and just outside of Winfield sign saying Trump and the White House Hillary and jail.

Yeah.

I mean, no.

It's there.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Isn't that interesting because a lot of folk music also is.

But the grass is not folk.

Yeah.

I mean, it is a kind of folk, but you're right.

If it were a folk music festival, it would probably have a lot more liberal roots.

Mm-hmm.

You know, Pete Seager influence kind of thing.

But bluegrass, no.

You know, that came out of Kentucky.

That's right.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

It's really interesting that the people, like you said, come together, so and it's just about the music.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Then does that or did that give you any sense of, I don't want to say security, but something different from what you experienced from the rest of the community when you'd go there?

What do you mean?

What gave me security?

Well, like when it started changing to where women were more-- Well, yeah.

It became more comfortable.

And since more and more, a broader swath of people were coming than the bluegrass people.

And even some bands on stage would, you know, say things about human rights.

And which would not have happened in the early days.

Yeah.

And they brought in a little bit about who they hired.

Like there was a group out of Seattle that loved, they broke up, but came several years called Rancho Man's, a women's group.

And for them to hire-- Now, I was in a women's group that played there in '77, I think, and Rosie's Bar and Grill.

And-- but there were very few women artists who played.

But when Rancho Man's played there, that was a broad step out for Wynfield.

Number one thing, the lead singer, Joe Miller, was-- although she didn't get on stage and say, I'm gay, if anybody had any doubt.

[LAUGHTER] You know, it was-- but there were fabulous musicians and people loved them, whether they loved gay people or not.

And now there were some, I'm sure, stay away because these weren't Christian enough.

Yeah.

Right.

What was the group you played with?

You said in '77, you had a women's group.

Rosie's Bar and Grill.

That was yours, OK.

Yeah.

OK.

Yours.

The album we made.

Now, tell me about this, making it and playing at the festival in '77.

You know, I'm not 100% sure why they booked it.

But we did, you know, just a few shows on the smaller stages.

But we were a feminist group.

So that also seems very unlike Wynfield.

But now there were some songs that we didn't do because it was Wynfield.

You know, we moderated our show a bit.

Because like there's a song that we did, it was probably one of our people's favorites of our songs is Did Jesus Have a Baby Sister, Dory Previn's song, and Washi Better, Washi Sweet.

And then she looked at her parents, say, "Savory at, save your person, save your woman, save her breath."

You know what I mean?

It's a funny song, but it's also fairly sacrilegious.

And we knew not to do that one at Wynfield.

Although some people did request it.

Oh, they did, OK.

Yeah, some of the audience did.

You knew us.

Did you write these, knowing you were going to Wynfield?

We didn't write the song.

I think there's only, I have original, never there's not much of a, that muscles are not original.

OK, OK.

So you had your group.

And I want to know about what that was like at Wynfield.

If you can remember.

Did you play just one year?

Yeah.

OK, well, tell me about that year.

It seems like that would have been a unique one for you.

Well, yeah.

I mean, we played on smaller shows.

And we did a workshop.

And I can't think, I can't remember what the workshop was about.

But, you know, it was fun.

People loved us.

And, you know, when we had a lot of pretty good following in Kansas City at the time.

So there were people who knew us.

And we'd played in Wichita several times.

So there were people who knew us in "Love Their Show."

But I think we were a bit much from Wynfield.

So they didn't have you come back.

Oh, not for you.

OK.

How could you tell you were too much for Wynfield?

Were there reactions?

Oh, I just knew it were too much for Wynfield.

You know, there were definitely-- yeah.

No, that's a much, your place.

It was.

Yeah.

OK.

So would you say you could just kind of sense it?

Because you knew, or were there even subtle actions that were done?

Oh, I don't remember any subtle actions.

But, no, I knew that.

You could just feel it.

Yeah.

Well, it's not that I could feel it.

I just knew that element was there.

Yeah.

OK.

Yeah.

You just knew it because you knew from talking to people.

Well, yeah.

And probably the element that really didn't want us there didn't come back shows anyway.

So they weren't in our audience.

OK.

The people who were in our audience love this.

Well, that's good.

Yeah.

And so these other two gals that are in the group, did they continue to go to Wynfield?

No.

They did not.

OK.

Interesting.

OK.

And do you play any of this?

Yeah.

When you go to work, you'll-- I don't do too many of those songs.

I once in a while do "Hike and Beach Woman," which is one that I wrote.

Sometimes I do traveling lady.

That's a wonderful song.

Once in a while I've done, she's more to be then scol-ed.

No, I don't usually do most of these songs, but I do some of them.

I have done some of them at other times.

That's the song you wrote.

Did you say it again?

"Hike and Beach Woman."

Tell us about it.

Tell me about that.

Well, it was a turnaround on the rambling man's songs.

And so I said, you're a real fine man.

You do the best that you can to treat me nice, but don't think twice I'm going to stay for too many days.

Because you wake up one morning and you'll see I'm gone.

It's not better than you've been on country.

I've really liked being here with you.

I'm a hiking boots woman.

I got to get moving along.

So it's really all of those.

It's not your fault, but I can't say in one place very long.

So I'm not going to put down roots so don't expect it.

Because there's a thousand of those rambling man's songs that basically say that.

Right.

Yeah.

And so you were saying this is not just men.

Yeah.

What did you write that one, do you remember?

Probably 76.

Just 70 sevens.

Yeah.

So you played it there probably that first time.

Yeah, probably did.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Let's see here.

Let's see.

Well, one thing I was going to ask about was a shared cultural identity.

Do you feel that with any of the people there?

You know, things like there was all this stuff going on.

Do you feel like there's a collective sense of you know, you talked about early on.

There were these.

Yes and no, but I think there's a hundred shared cultural identities in smaller pockets.

I don't know that there's an overall shared cultural identity other than the love for music.

Nice.

Yeah.

Okay.

And you felt that from the beginning?

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Wow.

There we go.

Okay.

Well, is there anything else you can think of about how music inspires you so deeply or how it did even?

Well, I've been a musician since I, you know, I've done music since I was a kid.

I probably was singing by the time I was talking.

And saying my first duet with my sister when I was eight in a church.

So to me, it's, I don't have a life other than knowing music is central to it.

So to make how something else might be a reality, I don't know that.

I do know that music has always been central to me.

It's never been an option not to do it, not to have it.

Yeah.

So it just feeds you.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And would you say, when field is unique at all to your other musical experiences?

We're sure.

And it's unique to music festivals.

It is unique to my other musical experiences just because it's so concentrated.

And in what a force, where am I?

Well, I don't know.

I'm just guessing space.

You can walk around and get, you know, a lot of genres of music.

You know, anybody goes back home and you've got maybe something for I.D.

Boy, maybe something in Saturday, maybe something this on some other day.

You don't have the concentrated number of choices 15 hours a day.

Yeah.

Tell me what that looked like early because I know it couldn't be there.

There was this big.

No, it wasn't as big.

And people were better about going to shows then.

I don't know if that's better as a different word, but people did that to go to the shows and then jam after the shows were over.

Now a lot of people just go to jam.

And that's what makes wind field different from almost every music festival in the country.

Is that most of the music festivals don't have the jam scene that wind field does.

And they always have, which you say that's been a true.

Yeah.

Like I said before, it was probably more mostly starting when the show was ended and going all night long.

But that 24/7 jamming are at least 19/7 jamming.

People do sleep a little.

Yeah.

But a lot of other really good music festivals, 90% of what's happening is on the stages.

And probably wind field, 80% of what's happening is not on the stages.

Yeah.

It's all around in the small little pockets.

Yeah.

Okay.

One more thing I definitely wanted to ask, we sort of touched upon it before, was about the next generation.

And you were saying that you just don't want the tradition of making music together to fade.

What do you see going on right now?

Do you think that's happening?

Yeah.

You know, you look at the brick.

There are a lot of young people who come in there.

Everywhere from kids, teenagers to people, my age.

That's a multi-johner thing.

You know, there are some 14, 15-year-olds who come in and do songs they wrote.

Yeah.

I do.

And I don't expect it to be the same as what fed me.

Okay.

Music always changes.

Okay.

Yeah.

Now, I've known people who, like this guy I played with years ago, he was my dad's age.

He was a fiddler.

And in a group I was in for quite a few years.

And he was, as a young man, he played fiddler and kind of Bob Will's and country kinds of bands.

Well, when Rock and Roll pulled the rug out from under Old Time Country in Western swing, he just put a waste fiddle.

And part of his, because he had kids too and he didn't think his kids should grow up with his dad being in taverns every night.

But, you know, that was part of it too.

But he was angry that the young people had pulled in another kind of music and his music was popular anymore.

And I think you see that in every generation.

A funny thing in my stepson, who's 48.

I think, yes, I'm close.

Anyway, a couple of years ago at a birthday party, we'd gone to a birthday party as some of his old high school friends here in town, Justin and his and Seattle now.

But anyway, there was a rapper who was there and, you know, taught.

And he did a couple of numbers and he was talking and he shook his hands and said, "The younger generation just aren't dedicated to this music like we were.

I'm going, that is the same thing every generation says about the younger generation.

They're just not dedicated enough to do good music because music is shifted and they're doing something else.

It's really the underlying complaint that nobody really says."

The music always shifts.

So I mean, I hang on to what I like, but I also have heard some really good hip-hop artists that I think are amazing.

Not that I'm going to learn it, right?

But I can enjoy it.

Yes.

Yeah.

So even though early on at Winfield, it was very different.

You are one of those that's trying to hold onto that at all.

Well, I'm not necessarily trying to hold onto this is what we should be doing.

Yeah.

I do think the fluidity is one of the beautiful things that both in life and in music.

So yeah, so even though you've got a lot of memories with it and a lot of years of experience, you definitely don't have this nostalgia where you want to grasp onto it and not know.

No, not really.

Yeah.

Okay.

Nice.

All right.

Well, is there anything else you think you can tell?

Stories, anything about what it has meant to you?

Well, basically, it's just, I've always thought if you go to Winfield and stay however long it is, three days, four days a week and a half, whatever you can.

And you play music in all those jam sessions.

You go back home making a year's worth of progress on your instrument.

Wow.

You can progress so much in a week by the intensity and the frequency that it would take you six months to a year to do it and practicing it all.

Wow.

Interesting.

Yeah.

That's really neat.

Yeah.